Assault On Offshore Sports Books

It's a constant cat and mouse game. The church and Las Vegas don't want online gambling and between them they have a lot of money and in turn a lot of power to influence the US Government.

A couple of states are trying to test the waters but honestly I don't see anything significant happening anytime soon. In the meantime it will be more of the same, the sports books will keep trying to find a way to service the US market and the government will continue to do their best to make it hard for them to do that.

FYI sports books aren't under attack so to speak. The way they are harmed is by the government closing off the ways the sports books can get money in and get money back to the players. The government doesn't need to go after any sports book in particular to hurt them, all they have to do is block the money and that kills two birds with one stone.

Since most of the sports book all share banks and processors when either of those links in the chain go offline that is why you hear about people getting bad checks or getting the runaround when trying to get a payout. The sports books want nothing more than to pay you in a timely manner, it's good for business. But because of how complicated it is to move money that's just not possible like it was before the US passed the UIGEA.

Thanks for your reply Mr. Cash, but I disagree with you about "the church" pouring money into the effort to get rid of online gambling . I am not aware of any local single church or church denomination doing this and besides the post I made was about "offshore sports books" and not online gambling in general. But of course there is a good argument against throwing lunch or rent money into gambling, especially if the person doing it is compelled to do so by an addiction to gambling. Those within the church who help people get free of this kind of addiction are doing something good with their time.

The us "govmint" is the monster behind the attacks against offshore sports books and they are not motivated or lobbied by the church to do so. The us "govmint" has other motivations for being against all financial stuff that is offshore.

The us "govmint" is against offshore financial stuff in all shapes and forms. They are against offshore bank accounts, offshore brokerage accounts, and offshore sports books with much of the same hideous hatred. The reason for this is that their appetite for wasting money is never satisfied and if it is offshore they can not control it nor take it. So try and open an offshore bank account these days and you will find out it is getting almost impossible for someone from the us to do so while the citizens of most countries of the world can do so quite easily. The solution is to throw the bums out who are wasting so much money.

Furthermore, people need to realize that it is all how you approach betting in the sports books that makes a difference. You can approach it like a gambler or you can approach it like an investor. Just as you can approach the stock market like a gambler by betting on penny stocks or you can approach the stock market like an investor by betting on blue chip stocks.

Undefeated77

Offshore sports books and online gambling are essentially the same thing as it pertains to American's. Online gambling only means something else if you aren't a US citizen.

I have been doing this close to 15 years and have seen the industry start, seen it on the verge of collapse and everything in between. Being so deeply woven into this business I can tell you that your opinion is that of a lot of people but it's not correct.

Organized religion has long been an opponent of not just online gambling but gambling in general. I can Google the church and their position on gambling and get a million hits from all over the world. It's well know that Christians and Catholics are opposed to gambling and consider it a sin. Just because you don't hear it at mass doesn't mean it's not something on their radar. Further to that end, religion sends millions upon millions of dollars a year to Washington to lobby for their beliefs (which gambling is one of). Religion has a platform just like Wall Street, big oil and tech.

If there wasn't such well funded opposition to online gambling you would already see it in the US. It's a multi-billion dollar business and the US is choosing to miss out on it rather than bring it in, regulate and tax it. The infrastructure already exists for inter-state wagering and taking a piece of it could create thousands of US jobs and pump hundreds of million dollars into the economy.

You have to ask yourself who else besides the Church has enough money and clout to block the US from flipping the switch on allowing online wagering and collecting all that tax money?

Sir:

Could you show me proof that "organized religion" (an entity that exists apart from individual alive churches) has been a force in trying to ban offshore or online gambling (do not like gambling myself and approach it as an investment)? Perhaps you could show me a website URL that has some evidence on it.

I believe that the real forces against online or offshore gambling (I am against it myself because I like sports investing only) is the usgovmint because they want to keep the money at home where they can track it and tax it. Also, local or state gambling businesses are against it because it takes business away from them. I believe these are the real forces arrayed against it.

Undefeated77

The term "offshore" is really irrelevant to this discussion. "Online" gambling regardless of where it takes place is still illegal in the United States so there has to be a reason the Government is willing to piss tens of millions of dollars a year away trying to stop it instead of legalizing it and taxing it. If there is one thing I know about anything it's that the Government likes money. I also know that the reason the Government does or does not do anything is because someone is lining their pockets to act or turn a blind eye.

So, if the Government is willing to turn down hundreds of millions of dollars a year in tax money that would be collected with legalization someone must be paying them to keep it illegal. When you run down who would not want everyone in the US with an internet connection to gamble online it's a pretty short list and an even shorter list of who has the means to keep online gambling prohibited.

I've been running this site for the better part of 10 years and been around gambling in one form or another for close to 20 so I think I have a pretty good handle on the industry. And the consensus among myself and my peers is that the same people who don't want drinking, drugs or prostitution also are the reason you aren't going to see licensed and regulated inter-state online wagering anytime in the near future.

I'm not knocking religion or religious people or anything like that, just stating the way it is. Organized religion is a very powerful force in this country and they put a lot of money every year towards things they want to see happen or in this case, not happen.

i would disagree with the church comment

my church has a bingo night once a week, momma cleans up and wins $50 everytime she plays

This is a newer article that pertains to what I was saying:

http://www.osga.com/online_gaming_articles.php?Federal-Prosecutors-Continue-Against-Legitimate-Off-Shore-Gambling-Operators-11931#.UgVnvW0WmSo

These are older articles of some interest:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2006-07-18-online-gaming_x.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washington/04gambling.html?_r=0

Hartley at OSGA is actually a friend of mine. We are on the same page in a lot of regards.

His article does a good job of illustrating my point.

Even if the government was able to successfully go after every offshore sports book, what they would be able to take financially would never equal what they could make in just one year of tax with legalization. So, ask yourself why is that? Even if they were able to successfully get a top tier book (which still hasn't happened) they might be able to seize $10-20 million in one pop. That same book if legalized and taxed could generate $50-100 million in tax dollars year after year.

You can disagree with me in regards to who is behind all of this but you can't argue with the numbers. There is less money in prosecution than there is in taxation. And if they are willing to prosecute rather then tax there is a powerful force behind that decision.

Even if the government was able to successfully go after every offshore sports book, what they would be able to take financially would never equal what they could make in just one year of tax with legalization. So, ask yourself why is that?

It is because they can not control and track the Americans with accounts in offshore sports books, so they go after them and try to shut them down and grab their money so money is not flowing offshore. The same thing is taking place in the world of offshore banking. The government is "going after" offshore banks with legislation that tries to squeeze out American citizens so Americans have a hard time going offshore with their money.

The following quote is from the first article I posted in my very last post and backs up my further argument made in my second post on this thread:
"If the DoJ truly wanted to get companies and individuals that are operating illegally and which do pose a threat to the American citizens they should go after the scam operators (of which there are many) and more importantly the underground bookmakers who happily take bets from American citizens and will also break their legs if they don't pay up. That's one of the things that is most upsetting about the continual assault on legitimate, licensed off shore operators. The biggest and best companies are the ones the DoJ has been targeting, leaving the American public to play with sometimes very unscrupulous operators or individuals."

The illegal betting operations spoken about in the paragraph just above here are not offshore. Therefore, THE WAR MY FRIENDS IS AGAINST ANYTHING OFFSHORE whether it be offshore sports books or offshore financial accounts for Americans. The issues are about CONTROL and TRACKING of all offshore financial stuff. Those same issues are driving the attacks against both offshore sports books and offshore banking.

If organized religion was behind the attacks then the DOJ would be going against the scam operations and underground bookmakers in the U.S. with just as much enthusiasm as they are going against the offshore operations.

http://www.osga.com/online_gaming_articles.php?Federal-Prosecutors-Continue-Against-Legitimate-Off-Shore-Gambling-Operators-11931#.UgZSiG0WmSp

What you are not grasping in this discussion is that if online wagering were legal, there would be no offshore sports books. 99.99999% of everyone playing offshore would immediately stop if they could play with an established brand that was legalized and regulated.

Name any favorite Vegas casino, if they had an online site that would allow any US citizen to bet sports, play slots, play black jack, etc. regardless of location Bodog and Sportsbook and Pinnacle would basically cease to exist. Unless, they were able to get licensed and regulated in the US also (which is pretty unlikely).

You probably can't prevent offshore banking but you can stop the bulk of offshore gambling and how you do that is through legalization, not through prosecution. All these places would dry up overnight if online gambling were legalized in the US.

They prosecute because legalization is being blocked. Offshore gambling only exists because legal interstate wagering doesn't.